I would argue that we did all we could to protect others, Chris. They know what they're doing in harming all for the actions of one.
I kept wondering if my blood could still help. I mean, if i had to feed, maybe. But the fear of them dying anyway and being turned was terrifying. I just wanted to help, and I worry I didn't.
I did learn though I had control. I just wish I hadn't hurt you and Michael while learning it.
I had hoped it was the lack of food that made his swing weak, but okay then. Seriously, he needs to learn. That wouldn't have bothered me if I hadn't been wanting worse in that moment. It's kind of sweet in a way. And sad.
As long as you kept your head and helped another keep theirs, In don't see how that counts as anything but helping.
And I'm glad you were able to discover that for yourself, I didn't doubt you'd learn your lines, I'm just sorry it was a shit time for it.
And if you're implying you 'hurt' me because I forced you to feed on me, I'm going to stop talking to you until you stop cause that was entirely on me. If I'd had something sharp, I'd have simply cut my arm open to give you no choice. I'm not a nice person, Kyle.
Sweet and sad is definitely an aspect of Jonathan Sims. I'll ask him again, but there'd be little point in holding our breath. All I think I'd really accomplish in teaching him is how not to break his own hand, I can't put muscles in his arm. And if you want pain, there's better ways to make it happen.
I'm not talking about it much but... I was terrified that if I got too hungry my switch would flip. Maybe with the magic workings and all, it really is stuck in place. I hope so.
I know I didn't force you. No one can force you. And on that I know for certain more than many. You would hurt yourself to keep me from starving, and even if it's to protect others, you call yourself not a nice person. I think we have different definitions of that then.
I didn't want pain. I just wasn't going to fight him. I wasn't going to push him away and let him take that as me attacking him. Maybe I wanted to be punished for thinking I was hurting you and others, but also I know how to not keep a fight going. I'm good for bad ways of ending fights not encouraging them.
I hope so too. I also think you need to give yourself more credit. You've got a good hold on your humanity.
I'm glad you tried to diffuse, even if it didn't work as well as it probably would have normally. You're both good men and I care about you, I'd rather you weren't at odds, but if you're never inclined to talk with him again as well, I'll fully respect it.
Will you at least consider supplementing what you're drinking with something fresh?
I really think I do. It wasn't that I wasn't starving, but I was controlling it. Even around others who were injured. Maybe I'm getting a handle on this without having to worry.
I don't feel at odds with him, Chris. I don't even blame him for his reaction. He cares about you and who can blame him for being upset? If I don't open the door, then it can't be used to tell me to stay away from you.
I'm still amazed we've gotten where we have and I don't want to lose that. Or make things difficult for you. We'll see though, okay? I'm not saying no.
Want to know the sad thing? I tell those that don't feed fresh that it's really no different, because I don't use the anticoagulants that many of them are used to blood bank blood having.
It's not true though. It's very different. I just hadn't sustained on bagged blood since I was made and hadn't remembered. I miss it being part of my friendships and intimacies. Even in this short time.
You can stop this controlling dom narrative you've got in your head about Jon any time now.
He would never order me to stay away from anyone and you put too much weight into the possibility he would try to control my social circle at all. He won't. End of story. Stop feeling sorry for yourself on that front and turning him to something he's not.
I'll abide by that no better than the times you sit there thinking you're some monster.
You don't want to drink from the bags? Don't. You want to put that intimacy back into your life? Then do it. You know you have control, you just said it felt proven to you. No one's in danger here, no one's going to offer out of some sense of obligation, allow yourself some normalcy, lovely. It's your choice to take back your life.
I don't know him well enough to know what he might try and do, and the city will back him up on it. They already have once.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself! I am CONSTANTLY worried about becoming my sire and not giving a shit about others and I am very much worrying about that right now. He wouldn't give a shit how many he endangered in that pit and if I endangered just one person I deeply care about then I'm going to worry!
I was healed within moments of coming out of that Hell, but those thoughts of ending up like him, they haven't stopped. It was all a reminder of how easy it would be.
He hates the city and it's system, he would never use it like that unless he absolutely had to. Which this doesn't count. You say you don't know him to know that, but I do. Trust my word.
You won't become your sire because you're you and not him. He might have influenced you and built you up a certain way, but that doesn't make you him any more than Bane's putrid influence on me makes me as evil as he is nor Jon's mentor's foul whispers doing anything more than haunting his mind.
That's all these people are to us: ghosts that we let linger by constantly comparing ourselves to them, by letting them continue to have power over us as we measure and check ourselves to ensure we won't hurt others the way they hurt us.
Tell me you've read that and understand it and I'll tell you two pictures I see.
I trust you, Chris, and I believe you. It still hurt, and more than that it struck a nerve. One that is hard for me to let go of that fear. Because as long as I remember what he was like, I'll know I won't become that person.
If you've found a way to let go of that fear, please tell me. I mean it. I refuse to use magic for all of it, though I'm working through those means too. At the very least of getting all of Elijah's cursed damned memories of his entire life and death out of my head. Maybe it's a start. Maybe it won't do anything. I don't know. I just have to try.
I understand it. I just don't know how to make it reality. How do we let them go?I
I don't know how to let them go. Bane shadows my steps, I question where his influence lies in me all the time. But I am not him, no matter what hw wanted. I won't become him. I trust that because, at the end of the day, I'm me and can be no one else. What separates those two things, at the very least, is cruelty. I don't think I'm that. I know you're not and neither is Jon. That's the important thing to hold onto.
I've never felt worse than the time I forgot that.
What I see in all this are two men who desperately don't want to be monsters to the point that even a moment of aberrant behavior brought about by cruel circumstances and their relation to someone they care about, clashed. Tensions were running high for you both, higher than any normal day. You should be kind to yourselves and your own reactions.
The time we were together, I forgot that. I went along with things, and threw myself into so much and I still am working out what were things I liked and what was what I went along because he wanted it and he suggested it.
But I'm learning, and I'm learning not to judge those things I enjoy off of him either.
I think the hardest part for me is that I think I was kind to myself, indulged in what I wanted and it caused so many issues and I worry it will happen again. I think I spend so much time not letting it happen again, I forget the parts where I have the right to indulge in what I want, even if others don't like it.
[ It was something he still reminded himself about Elijah and that he needs to remind himself in this moment. Yes he had made some questionable choices but the reasons behind them and the choice itself does not reflect on him as a person.]
You have me curious now, as to what sorts of things. We talk so broadly, but I don't know if I can help or offer assurance without knowing more specifics. If you're willing to talk about it.
And for the record, being kind to yourself and having something poor come from it does not mean you should never indulge again, it means you should learn what part went wrong and adjust for that. Sticking your hand in the fire is going to burn, that doesn't mean you shouldn't warm yourself by it later.
You're one of maybe three people I would talk to it about, honestly. Maybe only two.
From the very first moment there was bloodshed. The first day we met he bit me and fed from me. It was rough and painful and I enjoyed it. I won't say I didn't.
[ For a time he wondered if he had been compelled but he's learned since then he enjoys pain on many levels. Not just receiving. ]
I like inflicting pain too, if the person is enjoying it. I've found that with another but I haven't explored it as deeply as I sometimes dream about. I never did those kind of things before so I can't help sometimes wondering. Is it me liking the actions and the bloodshed or is it from something with him? I want to find out though.
All I wanted when he and I met was someone to love, to be loved by. Being told I was the thing he waited a thousand years for? It might have been a lie but it was everything I wanted to hear.
I think that was the first lesson I was working on figuring out for myself. Exactly what you said. For the most part? I think I have. Now it's working out the rest. Mostly about what's me and what is lingering. If there is anything or I'm just being afraid of myself. I've learned a lot about myself here, and I want to be okay with that.
Well. For a start: I'd be happy to try that with you, I happen to like pain quite a bit, both giving and receiving and I've measures to make sure no one goes too far. As you like.
And I highly doubt this is from him. Maybe he opened the door for you, but your tastes are yours alone. You can be influenced, but if you're not interested in something outside of drugs, nothing will change your mind about being interested in it.
He sounds exactly like a manipulative jackass. They see in you what you need most and offer it palm open, all the while holding the other hand back to strike when you're at your weakest and most vulnerable. As soon as you step out of the lines you didn't notice them drawing.
You're free of that now and learning more each day. Take pride in that, even on the days that feel nearly impossible.
I'd like that. You're one of those I trust and feel secure with so I wouldn't worry about holding back, or thinking you are holding back.
And I know logically but... My kind of vampire never forgets anything. It's always there. Except for me? It's his thousand years plus my own memories. He opened himself up to them and they became as much a part of me as vampirism is. I'm working on getting rid of them because I do worry they influence me and I want to be me. Not whoever, whatever it was he wanted me to be or what he wanted in doing that.
Literally what happened. I blame myself though I know most say I shouldn't. I should have seen it. I consider myself a smart man but I let him blindside me.
I want to be free of him. I never want to forget but I want to know all my choices and desires are based on me... and I want to explore the desires I have. Pain. Pleasure. Blood. All of it.
What a selfish fucking prat. He just wanted to ensure some part of him stayed with you that you could never forget. If you have a way to get rid of those, then do. There's no good to be had in having someone else's thoughts and experiences in you like that. I bet he sold it to you as some romantic move or something. 'Knowing all of him' or some shite.
[He's....mad legitimately pissed off and he knows it's not just on Kyle's behalf, though that's most of it, it's the manipulations and the strings Chris can see. The kind of shit he knows he always takes personally because of Bane, though their relationship had been platonic.]
Good manipulators never let you see it coming, the smartest people in the world can eat their shit up and never know it. You're better for knowing it now. You didn't let him do anything but open his mouth and I'd not expect you to be such an ass to stop that for no reason.
[Fuck he needs to...step outside or something. Climb onto the roof. The static presses in to choke him and he grabs his phone to do just that.]
[It both feels good that Chris can see it and talk about it like this, and also suck so much because others can see it and Kyle never did. Not until it was too late and then he was clawing his way up and out. ]
You're right. It's how he did it. He loved me in that instant, he had waited a thousand years for me, and he needed me to know who he was so I could love him too.
I had Ragnor break the emotional bond I have with them, and it's helped a lot. I've recently had an offer to help remove them and I hesitated, because of the idea of someone messing with my head but I think I'm going to take them up on it.
Thank you though. No one has put it so bluntly or seen it as clearly and it really helps. I need to hear that from someone. Especially from you.
Someday you're going to have to let me be there as much for you as you are for me, Chris.
I completely understand your hesitation with going through with having someone's hand in your head. I've been there and it's not something I easily abide by, but if you have any trust for this person, I'd take their offer. If you're not sure, take someone you trust to go with you and keep eye on the process.
I'll always be happy to call bullshit, especially for those I care for. Maybe I'm too sensitive to that sort of behavior, but I keep an eye out for it often.
[The last part he pauses on, fingers hovering over the letters.]
Someday. I'm just not good at letting people do that, even if I trust them to. You should get some sleep, handsome.
Yeah, nope. Don't wanna. Not even if he shows up here again.
[ It's a bad joke but he can't help himself. ]
How sad is it that I'm less worried about letting someone else in my head than I am keeping my sire there? It's such horrific things, and it just reminds me of what I could be. I want to remember who I am, and that's why I'll never let that happened before happen again. Not because I'm afraid of what I'm capable of.
Just don't ever forget I'm here for you, because I want to be.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
I kept wondering if my blood could still help. I mean, if i had to feed, maybe. But the fear of them dying anyway and being turned was terrifying. I just wanted to help, and I worry I didn't.
I did learn though I had control. I just wish I hadn't hurt you and Michael while learning it.
I had hoped it was the lack of food that made his swing weak, but okay then. Seriously, he needs to learn. That wouldn't have bothered me if I hadn't been wanting worse in that moment. It's kind of sweet in a way. And sad.
no subject
And I'm glad you were able to discover that for yourself, I didn't doubt you'd learn your lines, I'm just sorry it was a shit time for it.
And if you're implying you 'hurt' me because I forced you to feed on me, I'm going to stop talking to you until you stop cause that was entirely on me. If I'd had something sharp, I'd have simply cut my arm open to give you no choice.
I'm not a nice person, Kyle.
Sweet and sad is definitely an aspect of Jonathan Sims. I'll ask him again, but there'd be little point in holding our breath. All I think I'd really accomplish in teaching him is how not to break his own hand, I can't put muscles in his arm.
And if you want pain, there's better ways to make it happen.
no subject
I know I didn't force you. No one can force you. And on that I know for certain more than many.
You would hurt yourself to keep me from starving, and even if it's to protect others, you call yourself not a nice person.
I think we have different definitions of that then.
I didn't want pain. I just wasn't going to fight him. I wasn't going to push him away and let him take that as me attacking him. Maybe I wanted to be punished for thinking I was hurting you and others, but also I know how to not keep a fight going.
I'm good for bad ways of ending fights not encouraging them.
no subject
I'm glad you tried to diffuse, even if it didn't work as well as it probably would have normally. You're both good men and I care about you, I'd rather you weren't at odds, but if you're never inclined to talk with him again as well, I'll fully respect it.
Will you at least consider supplementing what you're drinking with something fresh?
no subject
I don't feel at odds with him, Chris. I don't even blame him for his reaction. He cares about you and who can blame him for being upset?
If I don't open the door, then it can't be used to tell me to stay away from you.
I'm still amazed we've gotten where we have and I don't want to lose that. Or make things difficult for you.
We'll see though, okay? I'm not saying no.
Want to know the sad thing? I tell those that don't feed fresh that it's really no different, because I don't use the anticoagulants that many of them are used to blood bank blood having.
It's not true though. It's very different. I just hadn't sustained on bagged blood since I was made and hadn't remembered. I miss it being part of my friendships and intimacies. Even in this short time.
no subject
You can stop this controlling dom narrative you've got in your head about Jon any time now.
He would never order me to stay away from anyone and you put too much weight into the possibility he would try to control my social circle at all.
He won't. End of story. Stop feeling sorry for yourself on that front and turning him to something he's not.
I'll abide by that no better than the times you sit there thinking you're some monster.
You don't want to drink from the bags? Don't. You want to put that intimacy back into your life? Then do it. You know you have control, you just said it felt proven to you. No one's in danger here, no one's going to offer out of some sense of obligation, allow yourself some normalcy, lovely. It's your choice to take back your life.
no subject
They already have once.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself! I am CONSTANTLY worried about becoming my sire and not giving a shit about others and I am very much worrying about that right now.
He wouldn't give a shit how many he endangered in that pit and if I endangered just one person I deeply care about then I'm going to worry!
I was healed within moments of coming out of that Hell, but those thoughts of ending up like him, they haven't stopped. It was all a reminder of how easy it would be.
no subject
Which this doesn't count.
You say you don't know him to know that, but I do. Trust my word.
You won't become your sire because you're you and not him. He might have influenced you and built you up a certain way, but that doesn't make you him any more than Bane's putrid influence on me makes me as evil as he is nor Jon's mentor's foul whispers doing anything more than haunting his mind.
That's all these people are to us: ghosts that we let linger by constantly comparing ourselves to them, by letting them continue to have power over us as we measure and check ourselves to ensure we won't hurt others the way they hurt us.
Tell me you've read that and understand it and I'll tell you two pictures I see.
no subject
It still hurt, and more than that it struck a nerve. One that is hard for me to let go of that fear. Because as long as I remember what he was like, I'll know I won't become that person.
If you've found a way to let go of that fear, please tell me. I mean it. I refuse to use magic for all of it, though I'm working through those means too. At the very least of getting all of Elijah's cursed damned memories of his entire life and death out of my head.
Maybe it's a start. Maybe it won't do anything. I don't know. I just have to try.
I understand it. I just don't know how to make it reality. How do we let them go?I
no subject
But I am not him, no matter what hw wanted. I won't become him. I trust that because, at the end of the day, I'm me and can be no one else.
What separates those two things, at the very least, is cruelty. I don't think I'm that. I know you're not and neither is Jon. That's the important thing to hold onto.
I've never felt worse than the time I forgot that.
What I see in all this are two men who desperately don't want to be monsters to the point that even a moment of aberrant behavior brought about by cruel circumstances and their relation to someone they care about, clashed. Tensions were running high for you both, higher than any normal day. You should be kind to yourselves and your own reactions.
That is not our normal.
no subject
But I'm learning, and I'm learning not to judge those things I enjoy off of him either.
I think the hardest part for me is that I think I was kind to myself, indulged in what I wanted and it caused so many issues and I worry it will happen again. I think I spend so much time not letting it happen again, I forget the parts where I have the right to indulge in what I want, even if others don't like it.
[ It was something he still reminded himself about Elijah and that he needs to remind himself in this moment. Yes he had made some questionable choices but the reasons behind them and the choice itself does not reflect on him as a person.]
no subject
And for the record, being kind to yourself and having something poor come from it does not mean you should never indulge again, it means you should learn what part went wrong and adjust for that. Sticking your hand in the fire is going to burn, that doesn't mean you shouldn't warm yourself by it later.
no subject
From the very first moment there was bloodshed. The first day we met he bit me and fed from me. It was rough and painful and I enjoyed it. I won't say I didn't.
[ For a time he wondered if he had been compelled but he's learned since then he enjoys pain on many levels. Not just receiving. ]
I like inflicting pain too, if the person is enjoying it. I've found that with another but I haven't explored it as deeply as I sometimes dream about. I never did those kind of things before so I can't help sometimes wondering. Is it me liking the actions and the bloodshed or is it from something with him? I want to find out though.
All I wanted when he and I met was someone to love, to be loved by. Being told I was the thing he waited a thousand years for? It might have been a lie but it was everything I wanted to hear.
I think that was the first lesson I was working on figuring out for myself. Exactly what you said. For the most part? I think I have. Now it's working out the rest. Mostly about what's me and what is lingering. If there is anything or I'm just being afraid of myself. I've learned a lot about myself here, and I want to be okay with that.
no subject
And I highly doubt this is from him. Maybe he opened the door for you, but your tastes are yours alone. You can be influenced, but if you're not interested in something outside of drugs, nothing will change your mind about being interested in it.
He sounds exactly like a manipulative jackass. They see in you what you need most and offer it palm open, all the while holding the other hand back to strike when you're at your weakest and most vulnerable. As soon as you step out of the lines you didn't notice them drawing.
You're free of that now and learning more each day. Take pride in that, even on the days that feel nearly impossible.
no subject
And I know logically but... My kind of vampire never forgets anything. It's always there. Except for me? It's his thousand years plus my own memories. He opened himself up to them and they became as much a part of me as vampirism is. I'm working on getting rid of them because I do worry they influence me and I want to be me. Not whoever, whatever it was he wanted me to be or what he wanted in doing that.
Literally what happened. I blame myself though I know most say I shouldn't. I should have seen it. I consider myself a smart man but I let him blindside me.
I want to be free of him. I never want to forget but I want to know all my choices and desires are based on me... and I want to explore the desires I have. Pain. Pleasure. Blood. All of it.
no subject
What a selfish fucking prat. He just wanted to ensure some part of him stayed with you that you could never forget. If you have a way to get rid of those, then do. There's no good to be had in having someone else's thoughts and experiences in you like that.
I bet he sold it to you as some romantic move or something. 'Knowing all of him' or some shite.
[He's....mad legitimately pissed off and he knows it's not just on Kyle's behalf, though that's most of it, it's the manipulations and the strings Chris can see. The kind of shit he knows he always takes personally because of Bane, though their relationship had been platonic.]
Good manipulators never let you see it coming, the smartest people in the world can eat their shit up and never know it. You're better for knowing it now. You didn't let him do anything but open his mouth and I'd not expect you to be such an ass to stop that for no reason.
[Fuck he needs to...step outside or something. Climb onto the roof. The static presses in to choke him and he grabs his phone to do just that.]
no subject
You're right. It's how he did it. He loved me in that instant, he had waited a thousand years for me, and he needed me to know who he was so I could love him too.
I had Ragnor break the emotional bond I have with them, and it's helped a lot. I've recently had an offer to help remove them and I hesitated, because of the idea of someone messing with my head but I think I'm going to take them up on it.
Thank you though. No one has put it so bluntly or seen it as clearly and it really helps. I need to hear that from someone. Especially from you.
Someday you're going to have to let me be there as much for you as you are for me, Chris.
no subject
I completely understand your hesitation with going through with having someone's hand in your head. I've been there and it's not something I easily abide by, but if you have any trust for this person, I'd take their offer. If you're not sure, take someone you trust to go with you and keep eye on the process.
I'll always be happy to call bullshit, especially for those I care for. Maybe I'm too sensitive to that sort of behavior, but I keep an eye out for it often.
[The last part he pauses on, fingers hovering over the letters.]
Someday. I'm just not good at letting people do that, even if I trust them to.
You should get some sleep, handsome.
no subject
[ It's a bad joke but he can't help himself. ]
How sad is it that I'm less worried about letting someone else in my head than I am keeping my sire there? It's such horrific things, and it just reminds me of what I could be. I want to remember who I am, and that's why I'll never let that happened before happen again. Not because I'm afraid of what I'm capable of.
Just don't ever forget I'm here for you, because I want to be.
I'll try. I'll see you soon.